Show #12: LOU GOTTLIEB of The Limeliters
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MEL BERNAM (ANNOUNCER): Here is Radio New York Folk Music Worldwide. A program devoted to the best in folk music throughout the world, showcasing the top performers and authorities in the field. Now your host for Folk Music Worldwide, Alan Wasser.

ALAN WASSER (HOST): Hello again, and welcome to Folk Music Worldwide. Today, we're going to fill a lot of requests, satisfy one the desires many of you have expressed in your letters. We've had letters from Margaret Hanon in Dublin, Bob Belzer in London, just to mention a few, asking that we do a show devoted to The Limeliters.

Well, this is it. With us on the show is Lou Gottlieb. He's the tenor, the bass player, the spokesman for the Limeliters. I asked him before if he really wasn't the leader of the group, but he told me that, technically, they're all partners, and he was just the tenor.

LOU GOTTLIEB (GUEST): The necktie tenor, Alan. We have a very fine tenor, Glenn Yarbrough. I sort of fill in between his voice and that of Alex Hassilev.

ALAN: Well, how do you get the term "necktie tenor?"

LOU GOTTLIEB: There's frequently one man in every chorus who seems to be straining for every note, and that's kind of a colloquialism that's frequently applied in these situations.

ALAN: Well, before we get into the interview very far, let me give our listeners a sample of The Limelighters' music. How about "We Will Overcome?" That's the southern integration song, isn't it?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yes, it's a song that's being used by the integration movement as kind of a theme song. We decided to cut it somewhat in the style that is found very frequently in Negro churches in the United States with piano. We have never used a piano in a background, and a man thought up a figure that sounds very much like a Bach choral prelude.

ALAN: Incidentally, who is your piano player on this?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Oh, he was a man by the name of Bob Florence. He is not our pianist. He just was used on this particular recording. He's a marvelous musician from Los Angeles, California.

ALAN: Well, let's hear, "We Will Overcome" with The Limelighters.

[Song performance: "We Will Overcome", The Limelighters]

Lyrics:

We will overcome,
We will overcome,
We will overcome, some day.

Oh, deep in my heart,
I do believe
We will overcome, some day.

We will all be free,
We will all be free,
We will all be free, some day.

Oh, deep in my heart,
I do believe
We will overcome, some day.

We will live in peace,
We will live in peace,
We will live in peace, some day.

Oh, deep in my heart,
I do believe
We will overcome, some day.

(end of music)

ALAN: That was "We Will Overcome" by The Limeliters. As we were listening to it, Lou was pointing out the beautiful tenor voice and pointing out that was Glenn Yarbrough and not...

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yes, he's the real singer amongst us. Alex and I are sort of filler voices, and it's nice to have a voice like that to write for because whatever you write always comes out right on the button, and he's the voice that is uppermost in the texture when we sing an ensemble.

ALAN: Where are they today, by the way?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Well, Glenn is probably in Sausalito, California. He has recently purchased some kind of a sailing craft, which I have not seen, but which he has been busily scouring and scraping and painting, and he is going to sail somewhere on it, we're told.

Alex is here in New York, working with our associate, Arnold Brown, with whom we make television commercials and things like that.

ALAN: Incidentally, you pretty nearly got your start in television commercials, didn't you?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Well, it was a lucky break. We went to work for Liggett and Myers, huckstering L&M cigarettes about two years ago, and we made some commercials, which they may not have sold cigarettes, but they did get some talk in the industry.

And it was very interesting what happens when you do that. People request you sing the jingle. But we have a hundred fine songs.

ALAN: You're a Ph.D., aren't you?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yes, I was awarded a doctorate at the University of California at Berkeley in 1958, after a very long odyssey.

ALAN: In which particular field?

LOU GOTTLIEB: I'm a music historian, technically a musicologist, and I did a dissertation on some sacred music from the 15th century, from a large manuscript which now resides in Trent.

ALAN: Are you using any of this music in your...?

LOU GOTTLIEB: No, it doesn't lend itself to this kind of performance. It's marvelous, it's a wonderful repertoire, and it's curious how people consider it somewhat recherche [rare, obscure], whereas if you owned a painting by Rogier van der Weyden people would say you're very fortunate, but I own let's say 25 pieces of music that are of equal merit artistically. Nobody cares.

ALAN: Well, how did a musicologist with a background in this kind of music get into popular folk music?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Well, I'd always worked my way through college, in one capacity or another, as a musician. I used to play the piano in dance halls and things of that sort, and when The Weavers first had their comet-like rise to popularity, I was attracted to folk music.

This was 1950, I suppose, and about 1954, I was instrumental in the formation of a unit that was rather successful around San Francisco called The Gateway Singers, or we were frequently referred to as The Re-Weavers. But, we sang there for a long time.

Finally, I had to stop that kind of work and complete the dissertation. And then around 1958, I ran into my present colleagues, Yarbrough and Hassilev.

ALAN: Where did they get their start? What's their background? You say, Glenn...

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yarbrough was born in Milwaukee and has lived pretty much everywhere in the country, in Baltimore and New York City, and he was a boy soprano at St. Paul's Cathedral right here in New York as a child, and he took up folk singing when he was a student at St. John's Academy in Annapolis. He has one of those voices with a startling immediacy of emotional impact, and it's just pleasant to sing with someone like that.

Alex Hassilev is an interesting man since he was born in Paris of Russian parentage. Came to this country when he was about eight. I think he's 31 now. And, he's something of a virtuoso with respect to the guitar and banjo and has a nice strong voice which lends itself to ensemble singing very well. And that's...

ALAN: I understand he speaks 14 different languages.

LOU GOTTLIEB: No, that's an exaggeration. He speaks 5 languages actually. He commands English, Russian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese.

ALAN: Well, now, I see here on your album you have "Die Gedanken Sind Frei" [Thoughts Are Free], which is German.

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yes, well that's just a great song from the Peasants War in Germany, "Die Gedanken Sind Frei," and it has kind of democratic message with which we agree wholeheartedly. Thoughts are free, they may not be confined, is essentially what the song says, and it's a good tune.

ALAN: Who does the German singing?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Oh, we all do, more or less phonetically. I learned enough German to get by my oral qualifyings, examinations for the doctorate, and you can always have someone tell you when you're wrong.

ALAN: Well, let's hear it, "Die Gedanken Sind Frei" as done by The Limeliters.

[Song performance: "Die Gedanken Sind Frei", the Limelighters]

Lyrics:

Die Gedanken Sind Frei, my thoughts freely flower.
Die Gedanken Sind Frei, my thoughts give me power.
No scholar can map them, no hunter can trap them.
No man can deny, Die Gedanken Sind Frei.
No man can deny, Die Gedanken Sind Frei.

Die Gedanken sind frei,
wer kann sie erraten.
sie fliegen vorbei
wie naechtliche Schatten.
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen,
kein Jager erschieben
es bleibet dabei
Die Gedanken sind frei.
es bleibet dabei
Die Gedanken sind frei.

I think as I please and this gives me pleasure.
My conscience decrees this right I must treasure.
Mein Wunsch und Begehren
kann niemand verwehren,
es bleibet dabei
Die Gedanken sind frei.
es bleibet dabei
Die Gedanken sind frei.

And if tyrants take me and throw me in prison,
My thoughts will burst free like blossoms in season.
Foundations will crumble, the prison will tumble,
And free men will cry, Die Gedanken Sind Frei.
es bleibet dabei
Die Gedanken sind frei.
And free men will cry, Die Gedanken Sind Frei.

(end of music)

ALAN: Very nice, very nice.

LOU GOTTLIEB: It is a beautiful song. It has that kind of broken-chord structure that's very moving to me.

ALAN: Well, this is Alan Wasser at Folk Music Worldwide, on Radio New York Worldwide. We're talking to Lou Gottlieb of The Limeliters, and we'll be back talking to Lou Gottlieb in just a moment.

(Pause for commercial)

ALAN: All right. Back at Folk Music Worldwide again. By the way, as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we'd had an awful lot of letters people who wanted to have The Limeliters on the show.

I trust these people will write in and let us know how they liked the show and let us know who else they'd like to have on. The address is Folk Music Worldwide, Radio New York Worldwide, New York 19, U.S.A.

LOU GOTTLIEB: You know, Alan, one of the most pleasant experiences that we've had, or certainly that I've had as an individual, was a tour that we made last February, which took us to cities like Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels, Geneva, and London. We had a concert at Royal Festival Hall, and perhaps that's why you're getting some mail.

It was really a tremendous experience for me. I'd never been outside of the Western Hemisphere, and I'm 39, so the concert at Royal Festival Hall will remain in my memory as one of the most outstanding, emotional experiences. It was so favorably received that it was embarrassing.

ALAN: Is folk music as popular in Europe, do you find, as it is in the United States now?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Well, we couldn't say with respect to Italy and The Netherlands because we appeared there only on television, and usually with some nice person who commanded both the indigenous language and English.

But in England, certainly, from what we could tell at Manchester, we gave a concert at Cambridge University in the debating hall, and the audiences were...of course, Chris Barber, the trombonist, once told me, "When you go to England, the audiences will be magnificent, but don't praise them. It embarrasses them, they don't like it, and all American performers do." But one simply couldn't resist. They were extraordinary.

ALAN: Speaking of the popularity of folk music, how do you account for the sudden burst of popularity of folk music in America?

LOU GOTTLIEB: I've thought about that an awful lot, and we've been asked it many times. I suppose there's a confluence of a number of factors. One, the material is available as a result of the efforts of a great many distinguished scholars.

Secondly, since the invention of long-playing recordings, the demand for material is just never ending. And these are all valid songs which performers, let's say who are no longer teenagers, can sing convincingly because the emotional impact is a vital one.

And lastly, I would say that the vapidity of the lyrics of so much popular music that you hear has somehow palled on the audience, and you find young people, particularly undergraduates in universities, who want to hear finer poetry than you do hear usually on the average pop tune.

ALAN: Let me ask you another standard question, that I'm sure everybody asks. What do you see in the future for folk music?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Well, I think its influence on American popular music as a whole is being felt, and will continue to be felt. I think that, as always, those individuals whose talent is gigantic will endure, and those whose talent is modest will pass from the scene. There's a kind of vogue now, and it's let's say, easier to get a job than it used to be, but it will eventually find its own niche.

ALAN: What about overseas? Do you think it will spread to the continent of Europe, Africa?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Yes, I think that particularly in those countries where the difference between their folk music and popular music is now growing. For example in Italy, there is a tremendous influence of American rock and roll. You hear a lot of Italian recordings that start out DOO-DOODOODOO-DOODOO-DOO, and then someone starts singing in Italian, it seems something of a jolt.

But I think there will come this kind of sophistication there where people will return to their own folk heritage, only in a jazzy way, you see. They'll start singing the older songs.

When we were in Italy, we did cut one song, "La Revista el Correo," which is an old Italian army song. We didn't do it well enough to release, but we were in the famous RCA Italiana Studios there in Rome, which everyone must see. It's the eighth wonder of the world.

ALAN: I see here you have a Greek song. Were you in Greece, or ...?

LOU GOTTLIEB: No, alas, we were not, but this is a song that most folk singers in the United States know. It's a dippy little thing, really, about a girl named Yerakina, who goes to the spring to fill her water jug, and upon the completion of this touching display of Aegean domesticity, she falls in.

Then, the song is in 7/4 time, which has some musical interest because it's not characteristic of the kind of music that's played in the United States, very difficult to remember how to do it. And I think on this recording, which was cut in person, we made a mistake, which was preserved on the recording for the benefit of our listeners.

It was kind of a joke. I don't know whether it should really be left on the record, but it does give the impression of a spontaneous performance, which it certainly was.

ALAN: Well, all right, here is "Yerakina," complete with The Limeliters' mistake.

[Song performance: "Yerakina", The Limelighters]

Lyrics:

LOU GOTTLIEB: I'll tell you what we oughta do. We're gonna admit that we're not Greek, and start over. Welcome to earn-while-you-learn time in Athens.

Yerakina at the spring,
Yerakina runs to fill her water jug,
Run, Yerakina, run.
How your bangles ring, ring,
Druga, droum, druga, druga, druga, droum,
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun

Yerakina at the spring,
Yerakina sees her sweetheart passing,
He doesn't hear a thing,
Though her bangles ring, ring,
Druga, droum, druga, druga, druga, droum,
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun

Yerakina at the spring,
Round the water pool, the rocks are shiny,
Yerakina tumbles in,
While her bangles ring, ring,
Druga, droum, druga, druga, druga, droum,
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun

Yerakina in the spring,
And her lover sees her pitcher lying,
Yerakina, don't you cry,
I love you wet or dry,
Druga, droum, druga, druga, druga, droum,
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun.
Druga, droum, druga, druga, druga, droum,
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun.
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun.
Ta vrahiolia tis vrondoun.

(end of music)

ALAN: Well, that was "Yerakina at the Spring," oh, just "Yerakina," as recorded by The Limeliters. Where was that recorded, by the way?

LOU GOTTLIEB: That was recorded in the night club in San Francisco, which is very famous, called The hungry i. And that little instrument on the end is a Portuguese instrument.

Folk music has always profited from cross-fertilization. It's a little instrument called a tiple.

ALAN: A tiple?

LOU GOTTLIEB: Tiple. Looks like a ukulele, only it has many strings instead of one for each note, three that is.

ALAN: Who plays that on the record?

LOU GOTTLIEB: That's a famous musician from Los Angeles who came up to San Francisco to help us make the recording. His name is Allan Reuss. He used to play with Benny Goodman and many famous...

ALAN: I presume not the tiple with Benny Goodman.

LOU GOTTLIEB: Oh, not the tiple. No, he played the guitar with Benny Goodman. But he knows how to play every instrument of the plectrum family.

ALAN: Well, Lou, we're getting short of time, but I think if we hurry, we can just get in one more short song. And I know just the rousing number to end with, "There's a Meetin' Here Tonight."

[Song Performance: "There's a Meetin' Here Tonight", The Limelighters]

Lyrics:

Some come to dance
Some come to play
Some merely come to pass time away
Some come to laugh
Their voices do ring
But as for me I come for to sing

'Cause there's a meetin' here tonight
There's a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There's a meetin' here tonight
There's a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There's a meetin' here tonight Great God
I'm glad you came along
Hope all the brothers and the sisters here
will help me sing this song

There's a meetin' here tonight
Let's hear it
There's a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There's a grin on every upturned face
And a smile in every eye
Brothers and sisters let me hear you shout
Let me hear your joyful cry

There's a meetin' here tonight
There's a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There is a meetin' here tonight
There is a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There's a meetin' here tonight
There's a meetin' here tonight
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight

There's a meetin' here tonight Great God
There's a meetin' here tonight Great God
I know you by your friendly face
There's a meetin' here tonight.

(end of music)

ALAN: The Limeliters doing "There's a Meetin' Here Tonight" from their album "Tonight in Person." Lou, we have just a moment left in this week's show, but there's a lot of interesting things we haven't talked about yet, and, even more, good Limeliter music we haven't played. Do you think you could come in again next week and do another show with us?

LOU GOTTLIEB: I'd be delighted to, Alan.

ALAN: Well, thank you very much. This is Alan Wasser at Folk Music Worldwide, and we'll be back next week with Lou Gottlieb of The Limeliters.

ANNOUNCER (MEL BERNAM): This has been Folk Music Worldwide. Devoted to the best in folk music throughout the world, and spotlighting top performers and authorities in the field.

If you have any suggestions, requests or comments, why not write in to Folk Music Worldwide, Radio New York, WRLU, New York City 19 U.S.A. This has been a Music Worldwide presentation of Radio New York Worldwide.

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